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Decorum Thread Explodes
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[ Update 8:30 PM 3/6/17 - The CV has apparently removed or inhibited view of all comments at the thread directed to in this blog posting. Not sure what's up - as comments go they weren't exactly the worst I've ever read. ]

The Citizen's Voice waded into the story regarding public behavior at the Wilkes-Barre City Council meetings and in particular Tony George's decision to no longer mandate the attendance of city department heads, citing the decay of decorum.

The link to the story is right here.

It's the explosive thread that followed that demonstrates what a deep nerve this issue has struck.

Unfortunately my posts of the early evening were all removed from the thread as part of some unexplained "purging" of comments. Thanks CV, I really appreciate taking the time to write things only to have them capriciously removed.

I'm pretty sure my remarks were not removed due to content since they clearly don't violate any rules of the board, but whatever the reason, it's discourteous to your patrons. I mean, dudes, "Citizen's Voice" is literally the fucking name of your newspaper!

What gives!?

Capture of DISQUS Removed Comments

The Citizen's Voice literally plowed through and deleted
all my comments from an important discussion. 
Thanks  CV.

Below are the removed comments if only to preserve the effort. They may not resonate exactly the same outside their native place in the thread but they deliver my respective points:

Removed Comments

  • (Regarding Bob K.) - "...He is not "speaking" at the council meetings. He's bellowing ineffectively and spurring anger and resentment such that nobody in their right minds would sit down with him. The videos are a relatively new feature of the council meetings and gradually they are painting this picture. As noted by others the baseless presumption of "corruption" and the rude sneering by Bob and several others, are increasing sympathy for the council, not whatever cause these people claim to stand for. And I phrase myself that way because I for one don't think people who behave that rotten toward other people are capable of standing for anything good, so it stands to reason to me they are "up" to something else. I am not sure what, but it's organized and its meant to damage, not help...."
  • "...Bob could show up and make his case in 5 minutes, thank the council, then step aside. Everyone would be at ease and the conversation between government and the public would actually flourish. Nobody seems to notice that Bob's lobbing of cannonballs at the council has not actually resulted in achieving any of the answers or good outcomes he purports to stand for. In business, as Trump would be careful to note, if you don't get results and you don't learn from your mistakes, you don't keep your position. Incompetence then, if not the loud and obnoxious behavior, should give cause to everyone posting here no matter where they stand...."
  • "...I think you are talking about the presentation Foy gave to the council in which some of his remarks offended Beth. That was a council-allotted presentation I believe. And even while making his points, contrary as they were to your or many other beliefs, he was polite and respectful. When he was finished he was politely silent while Beth retorted his remarks in offense. Let's agree that if some members of the public were just as cordial even while "attacking", there really would be no problem here. In fact, I'd say increase the speaking time in that case. But that's not what's really happening. You have members of the public using the open forum as an attack vector yelling, directly insulting, badgering for answers to complex questions, insisting on one-on-one interfacing post meeting, and so on and so on. They say they care about fellow taxpayers but their meanness and contradicting affect say otherwise. To me the real motivation has yet to be uncovered but even if I'm wrong about there being one, any good cause could probably do without certain loudmouths. I think department heads at these meetings is a great idea. The better approach in my opinion is to begin enforcing the decorum rules as apparently is being done now. If you want to get down to it you have people like "Bob" to thank for giving Tony an excuse to nip the requirement. So there's that...."
  • "...Yep I made the same observation to Corbett when I called into the same show following Bob K to discuss this issue. Sorick made stinging points sure to aggravate any government hedger and he did it with infuriating politeness and respect. I haven&qtt seen *all* of Sorick&qts presentations to council, maybe he went off the rails once or twice too for all I know, but the ones that I did left me wondering why everyone else had a hard time seeing how razing the council if it needed to be could be 'done' without busting the decorum. They probably hated Frank more than they do Bob K who comes off more like a sketchy potential violent criminal and proud of it to boot...."
  • "...He is not 'speaking' at the council meetings. He&qts bellowing ineffectively and spurring anger and resentment such that nobody in their right minds would sit down with him. The videos are a relatively new feature of the council meetings and gradually they are painting this picture. As noted by others the baseless presumption of 'corruption' and the rude sneering by Bob and several others, are increasing sympathy for the council, not whatever cause these people claim to stand for. And I phrase myself that way because I for one don&qtt think people who behave that rotten toward other people are capable of standing for anything good, so it stands to reason to me they are 'up' to something else. I am not sure what, but it&qts organized and its meant to damage, not help...."
  • "...Bob could show up and make his case in 5 minutes, thank the council, then step aside. Everyone would be at ease and the conversation between government and the public would actually flourish. Nobody seems to notice that Bob&qts lobbing of cannonballs at the council has not actually resulted in achieving any of the answers or good outcomes he purports to stand for. In business, as Trump would be careful to note, if you don&qtt get results and you don&qtt learn from your mistakes, you don&qtt keep your position. Incompetence then, if not the loud and obnoxious behavior, should give cause to everyone posting here no matter where they stand...."
  • "...I think you are talking about the presentation Foy gave to the council in which some of his remarks offended Beth. That was a council-allotted presentation I believe. And even while making his points, contrary as they were to your or many other beliefs, he was polite and respectful. When he was finished he was politely silent while Beth retorted his remarks in offense. Let&qts agree that if some members of the public were just as cordial even while 'attacking', there really would be no problem here. In fact, I&qtd say increase the speaking time in that case. But that&qts not what&qts really happening. You have members of the public using the open forum as an attack vector yelling, directly insulting, badgering for answers to complex questions, insisting on one-on-one interfacing post meeting, and so on and so on. They say they care about fellow taxpayers but their meanness and contradicting affect say otherwise. To me the real motivation has yet to be uncovered but even if I&qtm wrong about there being one, any good cause could probably do without certain loudmouths. I think department heads at these meetings is a great idea. The better approach in my opinion is to begin enforcing the decorum rules as apparently is being done now. If you want to get down to it you have people like 'Bob' to thank for giving Tony an excuse to nip the requirement. So there&qts that...."
  • "...We don't know the technical or other reasoning behind placing the cameras behind council. Your speculation that something nefarious is behind it is one theory I suppose, though I don&qtt know why they&qtd care. The video set up as it is is a budget compromise. Wilkes-Barre can&qtt afford the higher end AV methodologies used by some other cities *yet*, but there&qts no reason to believe that as things get better financially it may. By way of example, audio was very poor in the first videos but then they evolved into somehow integrating the microphone inputs and now it&qts much better. So the system is evolving. For now, the recording and encoding of the meetings to YouTube is actually a recent breakthrough and a far leap from having to rely on the meetings being recorded by biased members of the public (helpful as they were in doing so). I also think they are as effective as I for one hoped in putting what I deem 'the harassers' on the defensive so I for one have no problem with how the angle is positioned for now...."

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